I talked with Gil Camargo about food in general, but we also touch mexican cuisine. It's really interesting that in Mexico are a lot of Japanese or European restaurants, so their food experience it's really "international", not only Mexican.
As you know, i love hamburgers so i couldn't miss the chance to ask Gil Camargo about his favorite hamburgers, where to find 'em and how a great hamburger should look or taste. For me, the perfect hamburger should have bun, meat and that's about it.
I hope you enjoy this discussion of food and food culture in Mexico City.
Download this episode!
Transcript:
Transcript:
(0:00.0)
Gil Camargo:
Chile Relleno Taco.
(0:02.4)
Harry Hawk:
Hello. This is Harry Hawk and this is Talking About Everything, and I’m still in Mexico, that is Mexico City, and I’m talking to my friend, Gil, as you know, the LGBT Editor for Time Out Mexico City. I wanted to change the conversation. I have a lot of podcasts this week that I’m doing about food, I’m talking to chefs and things, but just as a guy growing up in Mexico City, so you’re exposed to a very international cuisine and I think people would be shocked that there’s lots of Japanese restaurants, lots of Korean restaurants, French restaurants, Italian restaurants. So you’re growing up, you’re coming to know food as any human does, three, four times a day we’re all eating. What are your early food memories?
(0:47.2)
Gil Camargo:
It’s my great-grandmother doing tamales from part of Mexico, there is Michoacán. They call ashes tamales because they put some, a little spark of ashes and there is not like the traditional tamales with a corn leaf, it’s with another leaf. There is like a strip, green strip, and they put the masa inside and make like a _____ (1:13.0).
(1:12.2)
Harry Hawk:
Masa.
(1:12.8)
Gil Camargo:
Masa, yeah.
(1:14.2)
Harry Hawk:
What kind of plant is it or leaf?
(1:16.8)
Gil Camargo:
It’s chorizo and it’s a green leaf.
(1:19.2)
Harry Hawk:
And you said they make it into a triangle.
(1:20.7)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah, in a triangle and you put it in the pot and boil it, and then you have a tomato sauce, kind of spicy. Put fried pork meat.
(1:31.5)
Harry Hawk:
mb,Pork chops.
(1:32.0)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. And you have your tomato sauce, a lot of tomato sauce.
(1:37.0)
Harry Hawk:
And this is outside. This is served along with it.
(1:38.5)
Gil Camargo:
And yeah, outside, and then you put the tamales because are very small, a very small triangle, you put the tamales inside and you cover with some cream, some cheese and lemon and onion, and you eat it with like a soup.
(1:53.9)
Harry Hawk:
Okay. And this is, at that point when it’s all together the leaf has been removed?
(1:57.8)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. The leaf is removed and you put just the masa in the triangle form.
(2:02.7)
Harry Hawk:
So obviously a family recipe, this is something that you grew up with for…is this an everyday meal or is this only on the weekends or a special holiday?
(2:10.1)
Gil Camargo:
It’s like a special holidays, but my family prepared it for example when I live in Mexico City and when I go there, my aunts always prepare it because they know that I really love that kind of tamales. Another memory is the mole. I don’t know if the people know the mole.
(2:27.6)
Harry Hawk:
Yorkers are becoming a little mole aware, but they still probably need a little education. Now, in New York most of what we would find is a mole poblano and it’s served typically fairly sweet. I’ve had a similar mole here that was a little spicier, and then of course we know in Oaxaca there’s at least 13 kinds of mole and I imagine mole from other parts of Mexico. What are your mole memories?
(2:52.7)
Gil Camargo:
We said that it’s a lot of mole as people prepare it because each person put a part of them in that sauce. So for me I like a really, really sweet mole with a lot of chocolate because it has chocolate inside.
(3:08.5)
Harry Hawk:
So this is sort of the mole poblano that we get in New York. You’d be happy with it I think.
(3:12.2)
Gil Camargo:
I love it. I love it. For me, I prefer it with more black chili to make a very dark sauce. Some people prefer very red. And I remember then my grandma was frying a chili and when you put the chili in the oil all of this smog…
(3:31.2)
Harry Hawk:
Smog would be the wrong word, but we would say steam or smoke or…
(3:34.2)
Gil Camargo:
Okay. And it started to make you cough.
(3:37.6)
Harry Hawk:
Well, this is very important. People don’t know in the kitchen, but when we would cook pounds and pounds of chili it literally will make you sick if you breathe it. And in America in the kitchen you would have to wear a gas mask to cook it properly.
(3:50.2)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah, but the traditional women don’t wear a mask, they just do it. So I remember that process when you have to fry the chilies and all this other from the chilies and you start to cough.
(4:02.4)
Harry Hawk:
Okay. So then these are early food memories, and then to be at some point in y our life that you’re starting to take meals outside the home. What kind of food would your family or friends, where would you go? What kind of food would you eat?
(4:14.2)
Gil Camargo:
Mexican families prefer to cook, but when we go outside to have dinner we usually go for tacos, but I don’t know why the American people do that kind of fried tacos. It’s the tortilla very crispy, and the real taco is not that in that way. It’s a…
(4:34.8)
Harry Hawk:
It’s more of a flatos or something like this?
(4:36.3)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. The tortilla is not fried. It’s not a tostada.
(4:40.8)
Harry Hawk:
These very crispy ones we get commercially in New York City again or all around the country. If you’re going to a taqueria it’s going to be a soft taco, but there’s different sizes and when I go to a Mexican restaurant, a real Mexican restaurant by which I only mean because I don’t believe there’s anything in terms of authentic, but a place where Mexicans are eating and they’re serving Mexican food, there’s two tortillas. And when it’s a place that’s more for the gringos it’s one tortilla.
(5:08.0)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. Do you know why?
(5:10.1)
Harry Hawk:
Well, I assume because it’s sustenance and we all want our starch.
(5:13.8)
Gil Camargo:
No. It’s because if you have just one tortilla, when you put the sauce the first tortilla gets soft and broken, so they put two tortillas. And as the American or foreigners don’t put a lot of sauce, just a little bit, the tortillas keep together.
(5:32.0)
Harry Hawk:
All right, well, that’s help explain it.
(5:33.4)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah, that’s why.
(5:35.2)
Harry Hawk:
All right, so we know that there’s all kinds of fillings that go into tacos, but what’s your top two fillings?
(5:40.3)
Gil Camargo:
It’s a kind of mole. Usually the mole is you boil the chicken and put the mole over.
(5:45.7)
Harry Hawk:
So, chicken mole?
(5:47.3)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. But the chicken breast…
(5:47.9)
Harry Hawk:
Shredded.
(5:49.1)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah, and you put sauce and make like a little masa and put inside of a tortilla is amazing.
(5:56.3)
Harry Hawk:
Okay, so that’s number one. Number two?
(5:58.0)
Gil Camargo:
The number two is Chile Relleno Taco. It’s amazing. It’s chili, a big chili filled with cheese and cover…I don’t know how to say, but it’s eggs mix.
(6:10.8)
Harry Hawk:
Like scrambled eggs.
(6:12.0)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. And you put it on and fry it and you have it in a tortilla, are amazing. And the third, the Tacos al Pastor is pork meat with marinade in red sauce. They put it like in a vertical grill.
(6:27.4)
Harry Hawk:
You need to think, almost like a Shawarma, which you would see in New York, rather cities, and this is how they’re grilling the meat, and we rarely see this in New York. In my opinion I’ve never had a good Tacos al Pastor.
(6:37.9)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah. And I like the traditional, there is the meat with cilantro, onion and a slice of pineapple. That’s my favorite. So that’s my three.
(6:49.3)
Harry Hawk:
Well, that’s great. And we would do a whole episode about tacos, but I think that’s good. Then at some point, you’re no longer living at home, you’re living on your own? Can you remember maybe one of the first dishes that you might’ve cooked for yourself?
(7:03.1)
Gil Camargo:
For me, I really like the Chile Cirjanos. I usually prepare two times per month, and I really like this pork skin. We have chicharrón in green sauce. That’s one of my favorites too.
(7:18.7)
Harry Hawk:
Okay, give me one more.
(7:20.1)
Gil Camargo:
It’s pork in green sauce with berolahraga, it’s a clam, delicious with black beans.
(7:28.5)
Harry Hawk:
And now no conversation with me about food would be complete without talking about hamburgers. I won the 2008 New York City Burger Battle of the Boroughs. I’ve made and sold over a hundred thousand burgers. Do you have a relationship with the hamburger?
(7:42.4)
Gil Camargo:
Obviously, yes. There is a restaurant called Johnny Rockets.
(7:46.8)
Harry Hawk:
An American chain, yes.
(7:48.3)
Gil Camargo:
Oh, my gosh, I guess they have the most beautiful hamburger in the city.
(7:53.6)
Harry Hawk:
But again I’m thinking about…we’re talking about food memories. Can you remember your first hamburger or where you would’ve seen it or…
(7:59.4)
Gil Camargo:
I remember one hamburger of Johnny Rockets with my boyfriend. I went to this place. He’s from Canada. He’s not a very like big chain restaurant so he said, oh, this is like McDonald. I said you’re going to have a really nice hamburger. So we went there and he tried it and he was like very surprised because he traveled around the world and said, oh, my gosh, I have hamburgers in New York, in England and France, but here in Mexico this restaurant is amazing, so I guess this is one of my best memories.
(8:39.2)
Harry Hawk:
Well, that’s great, and to have it with a boyfriend and all of that. Now, to speak a little Spanglish, what’s the local word for hamburger?
(8:47.1)
Gil Camargo:
Hamburguesa.
(8:48.7)
Harry Hawk:
Hamburguesa. The hamburger has not only become a universal food and it’s clearly an American food that is inspiring chefs around the world, it’s not just kitchen chefs and small chefs, chefs at some of the greatest restaurants in the world are making hamburgers and truly despite everything that one might think, I think it is one of the hardest dishes to really prepare well. Now, for myself I am very much a hamburger purest which means in the spirit Josh Ozersky, rest in peace, and my friend, George Mothes, and others who have some affection for the pure hamburger, we’re talking about a bun, the meat, maybe a little sauce or something, but that’s it. But for yourself do you like a lot of toppings or not?
(9:31.2)
Gil Camargo:
For me it’s just the bread, the meat, cheese, a lot of cheese.
(9:34.6)
Harry Hawk:
I’m against cheese.
(9:36.5)
Gil Camargo:
Never is enough for the cheese, you know?
(9:39.1)
Harry Hawk:
No, I can like some interesting cheeses, maybe a Roquefort or something like this, but I am on the record of saying the number one thing that should never be on a burger is queso, no cheese. But speaking of cheese and that you like lots of it, what’s your favorite cheese on a burger?
(9:53.9)
Gil Camargo:
Roquefort is…
(9:54.7)
Harry Hawk:
Roquefort?
(9:55.2)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah.
(9:55.6)
Harry Hawk:
Like a blue cheese?
(9:57.5)
Gil Camargo:
No, the yellow one.
(9:58.4)
Harry Hawk:
So it’d be like an American cheese.
(9:59.9)
Gil Camargo:
American cheese and Oaxaca cheese, there is a kind of cheese from Oaxaca.
(10:05.6)
Harry Hawk:
How do they say it in Spanish?
(10:06.3)
Gil Camargo:
Queso Oaxaca.
(10:07.8)
Harry Hawk:
So literally Oaxacan cheese.
(10:09.7)
Gil Camargo:
I guess if a hamburger doesn’t have cheese it’s not a hamburger.
(10:15.3)
Harry Hawk:
If a hamburger has cheese it’s not a hamburger, it’s a cheeseburger.
(10:19.9)
Gil Camargo:
Okay.
(10:20.2)
Harry Hawk:
It has its own name. It’s called a cheeseburger.
(10:23.5)
Gil Camargo:
A little bit of lettuce and a slice of tomato and that’s all.
(10:29.2)
Harry Hawk:
Well, we can certainly agree on the tomato and we’ll have to fight over the queso, but we’ll have a link to an article that the folks over at Schweid and Sons did where they interviewed me about hamburgers, and I’m very much on the record as being against cheese. But what I think that the evolution of the hamburger in particular, speaking sort of as a chef, the early hamburgers the meat wasn’t necessarily very good and it wasn’t necessarily cooked well.
(10:52.7)
Harry Hawk:
And for me, the hamburger is about the meat and the high quality and the amazing taste of the meat and when that all comes together I think that works really well. But anyway, it’s great to have a little bit of controversy. Let us know what you think about hamburger and cheese and you can let us know in the comments or both of us have Twitter accounts and you can certainly go on Twitter. We’ll have all that at the end of the show. I want to bring this little episode to an end. Is there anything else that you want to mention about food and food memories that I haven’t asked you?
(11:23.8)
Gil Camargo:
I just want to say that if you want to try the real Mexican food you have to come to Mexico City.
(11:29.6)
Harry Hawk:
More than any other part of Mexico.
(11:31.1)
Gil Camargo:
Yeah, and Oaxaca too, but I don’t want to generally say. What we saw in American movies usually is not Mexican food, and I have a lot of American friends that the first time they came were like scared of the food, and when they really realized what kind of Mexican food is really, they surprised. For American people it’s easy to come to Mexico so…
(11:56.6)
Harry Hawk:
We’re talking about Mexico City. All right, so please tell everybody where they can find you online.
(12:01.9)
Gil Camargo:
Twitter, I’m Gil Camargo.
(12:05.0)
Harry Hawk:
How do you spell that?
(12:05.3)
Gil Camargo:
GilCamargo_ and on Instagram as Gil Camargo too, but it’s Gil_Camargo.
(12:23.5)
Harry Hawk:
So two underscores.
(12:24.3)
Gil Camargo:
Two underscores.
(12:25.0)
Harry Hawk:
This is Harry Hawk and this has been Talking About Everything. We’re here in Mexico…Mexico City, but we just say Mexico, and I hope everybody has a great week. Bye-bye.
(12:35.4)
Chuck Fresh:
My name is Chuck Fresh and I’m being paid to thank you for listening to Talking About Everything with Harry Hawk. Harry wants to hear from you on Twitter at HHawk or HarryHawk@gmail.com
(12:50.3)
Chuck Fresh:
And now a word from our sponsor, Life Extension Coach and Favorite Chef.
(12:56.3)
Male Speaker:
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(End)
